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Kirk Herbstreit, Jimmy Graham, And Saying Goodbye To Big Ben

Wednesday, January 5, 202222 takes

Big Ben’s last night in Pittsburgh was emotional. We recap the game and what the Browns are going to do with Baker(-). Hot Seat/Cool Throne including a shocking moment with our darling Jake(-). Kirk Herbstreit joins the show to talk College Football, opt outs, and the National Championship game Monday Night(-). Jimmy Graham joins the show to talk about his foundation, his career, trying to be classified as a WR, what it’s like at Halas Hall right now and more(-). We finish with Guys on Chicks(-).

Kirk Herbstreit on Opt-Outs and Jimmy Graham on Career Milestones

Big Ben Roethlisberger finally had his emotional Pittsburgh send-off on Monday Night Football, and while the game was objectively terrible, it was the perfect Ben-tastic ending. Big Cat and PFT marveled at a stat line where a quarterback could throw 46 times for under 150 yards and still win. It was peak Big Ben: looking completely unathletic while dragging defenders like wolves trying to take down an elephant.

Loss
Jan 5, 2022
#10901
Big CatBig Cat

I really hope Big Ben shows up to training camp next year and claims he was joking about retiring

I really, really hope deep down. He just shows up to training camp next year. And he's like, what? Wait, what I was, I was just joking. Like I wasn't serious. I'm still [a] Steeler.

Ben Roethlisberger officially retired and did not return for the 2022 training camp.

While the tears were flowing in the Steel City, PFT pointed out that Ben is the ultimate veteran of an era that didn't have to deal with every mistake being clipped for Twitter. He played through the transition into the social media age, but his legend was built in those muddy, grit-filled games of the late 2000s.

Void
Jan 5, 2022
#10902
PFT CommenterPFT Commenter

Big Ben benefited more from existing pre-social media than any other quarterback

Nobody benefited more from existing pre-social media than Big Ben. Yes. That is absolutely true.

Subjective historical analysis of media eras.

Big Cat isn't fully buying the waterworks yet, though. Knowing Ben’s love for drama and the "daddy’s still a football player" vibes, he thinks there is a non-zero chance this was all a massive trial balloon to see if the front office would panic and beg for one more year.

Win
Jan 5, 2022
#28551
Big CatBig Cat

Big Ben's 'retirement' is likely a ploy to see if the Steelers will beg him to come back

I think what Big Ben is doing now that I'm hearing all this is that I think he's essentially retiring. And then on the last day of work, he's going to walk out of the facility and he's going to do the thing, like... keep looking back like, oh, did you want me to do another? And hoping that someone says, 'Hey, Ben, we want you back.'

Roethlisberger did indeed retire after the 2021 season and never returned, despite any perceived longing for the team to ask him back.

The Baker Mayfield Disaster

On the other side of that Monday night game, the Cleveland Browns' season officially went up in flames. Baker Mayfield looked like a guy who shouldn't have been on the field, and Big Cat thinks the coaching staff failed him by letting him play through a laundry list of injuries that clearly compromised his mechanics and the team's playoff chances.

Win
Jan 5, 2022
#10903
Big CatBig Cat

The Browns screwed up Baker Mayfield's season by not forcing him to get healthy earlier

I actually still think that the Browns like baker deserves a lot of blame for not having a good year, but the Browns deserve a lot of blame for kind of bungling this entire injury. Like they never really were like, Hey baker, let's get you healthy and try to put it all back together. Instead there they were, it was just every week, let's get you out there. And he got progressively injured and was playing progressively worse.

Mayfield played most of the season with a torn labrum in his non-throwing shoulder, which clearly impacted his mechanics and performance.

With the season effectively over for Baker, the conversation shifts to whether Cleveland can actually commit to him long-term. He hasn't shown the consistency of an elite guy, and the guys agree that the price tag for a middle-of-the-pack starter is getting too rich for any team's blood.

Win
Jan 5, 2022
#10904
Big CatBig Cat

You can't give Baker Mayfield a record-breaking contract right now

He definitely falls in the camp of a guy that you can't be giving a record breaking contract to. That's not like something wild. That's not a hot take. I think we all agree with that. He's not an upper echelon quarterback right now.

Baker Mayfield was traded to the Panthers the following offseason and did not receive a record-breaking deal from the Browns.

Kirk Herbstreit on the State of College Football

Kirk Herbstreit joined the show to clear the air after a weekend of trending on Twitter for his comments on player opt-outs. He explained that the conversation was more about the changing landscape of the sport than shaming individual kids. Kirk made a fascinating point about the "all-in" mentality: if a player is purely focused on the NFL, why only skip the bowl game?

Void
Jan 5, 2022
#28555
Kirk HerbstreitKirk Herbstreit

If your only goal is reaching the NFL, you should skip your entire third season of college football instead of just a bowl game

I wish you all the best from the bottom of my heart. I hope you make generational wealth, but that's one lane. If you're in that lane, why would you not only not play in a bowl game... why would you play in the entire season? See, I think that's where we're going... If the goal is to get there, skip your entire third year, go to Phoenix, go train, stay healthy.

This is a subjective logic-based take on the incentives of college football, but notable as the 'meta' of the sport continues to shift toward early departures.

He also touched on the psychology of playing scared. Herbstreit’s advice for any player with one foot out the door is simple: if you're worried about the injury, that's exactly when you'll get hit.

Void
Jan 5, 2022
#10907
Kirk HerbstreitKirk Herbstreit

If you are concerned about getting hurt in a bowl game, you should not play

If you play in a bull game and you're worried, oh my gosh, I'm playing in this bowl game. But what if I get hurt? You're going to get hurt... If there's any fear at all about what's at stake... I would say, don't do it. You got to play the game. It is a reckless game.

This is a philosophical coaching/playing take that isn't strictly verifiable but is a standard football axiom.

Looking ahead to the National Championship, the guys discussed the Georgia-Alabama rematch. While Bama took the rubber hose to Cincinnati, Georgia looked like an NFL team that snuck into hard rock stadium against Michigan. Big Cat is still holding onto the idea that the Bulldogs are the better squad, even if Saban is Kirby Smart's personal boogeyman.

Win
Jan 5, 2022
#10910
Big CatBig Cat

Georgia is a better team than Alabama this year

I still do think Georgia is a better team than Alabama. And I think that they've been better all year.

Georgia defeated Alabama in the National Championship game shortly after this episode, proving they were the better team in the final matchup.

Jimmy Graham’s Aviation and Intensity

Bears tight end Jimmy Graham hopped on to talk about his Walter Payton Man of the Year nomination and his foundation’s work with veterans. He also took some time to humble PFT and Big Cat on their aviation knowledge, explaining why he doesn't need a round of applause for touching down.

Win
Jan 5, 2022
#10912
Jimmy GrahamJimmy Graham

Planes can basically land themselves now, so clapping for pilots is unnecessary

Even in fog, you'll basically have the plane land itself... I think you should, more or less [clap] back to the plane. I mean, now most of the landings are done by hand, you know, obviously, cause, cause you've got to stay current... you know that if something was really going on, you know, those things are pretty much going to land themselves in fog.

Autoland systems (CAT III) exist and are used in low visibility, but most landings are indeed manual for currency reasons.

Graham reflected on his legendary 2011 season where he realized he was essentially a glitch in the Madden engine. He credited his transition from basketball to his willingness to sacrifice everything on every single snap.

Void
Jan 5, 2022
#10913
Jimmy GrahamJimmy Graham

I am willing to die on certain plays; that is the level of commitment needed

I gave myself no other option... I play with this type of intensity and tenacity that, you know, I was willing to, you know, I mean, I was willing to die on certain plays out there. And that's kinda how I took it most of my career.

Subjective personal reflection on his own career intensity.

He also addressed the current state of Halas Hall and his own future. With his contract winding down and the Bears in flux, Jimmy was surprisingly candid about the fact that this Sunday might be the last time he wears the navy and orange.

Win
Jan 5, 2022
#10914
Jimmy GrahamJimmy Graham

This Sunday might be my last game with the Bears as I look for a contender next year

Hopefully this is my last game [with the Bears], you know, that's kind of where my mindset is... I got to figure out what's next for me, you know? And I got to figure out if there's an opportunity for me to go onto a contender next year and kind of see what happens.

It was indeed his last game with the Bears. He sat out the 2022 season but returned to play for the Saints in 2023.

Between Jake getting absolutely roasted for a massive zone-out during Hot Seat/Cool Throne and Billy giving out sketchy medical advice for IBS-C, the episode was a classic mid-week grind. If the Raiders and Chargers actually tie on Sunday Night to screw the Steelers, the internet might actually break.

nflcollege-footballsteeelersbrownsbearsnational-championship

More Takes

Win
Jan 5, 2022
#28552
PFT CommenterPFT Commenter

Trading the 9th overall pick for Baker Mayfield is way too steep a price

I think it was Albert Breer saying that the Washington football team was considering trading the ninth overall pick for Baker Mayfield. That seems steep. It seems... I'm just in fuck it mode right now.

Baker was eventually traded to the Panthers for a conditional fifth-round pick, proving that a first-round pick (especially 9th overall) was indeed far too steep.
Win
Jan 5, 2022
#28553
Big CatBig Cat

TJ Watt absolutely has to win Defensive Player of the Year

TJ Watt was going to be Defensive Player of the Year two months ago. And he's going to set the record for sacks. Incredible season. The impact he's had on... he is the Steelers defense. He has to win this award.

TJ Watt did win the 2021 NFL Defensive Player of the Year award.
Loss
Jan 5, 2022
#28554
HankHank

If the Patriots beat the Bills in the playoffs, the season is a success regardless of what happens next

I'm just saying this right now. If we beat the Bills in the playoffs, I don't care what happens. I'm just going to put it out there.

The Patriots were crushed by the Bills 47-17 in the Wild Card round, so Hank never got his wish.
Loss
PFT CommenterPFT Commenter

The new Washington team name will be the 'Red Hogs'

I'm thinking it's going to be the red hogs, which I, which I love actually, because you're given a throwback to the hogs, the old offensive line. And you can do so much cool shit with pissed off looking pigs.

The team officially became the Washington Commanders on February 2, 2022.
Loss
Big CatBig Cat

Johnny Davis is the National Player of the Year in college basketball

Johnny Davis, right? National player of the year, if you had a vote, yeah. Number one, you would build on it.

Johnny Davis won many awards but Oscar Tshiebwe won the Naismith and Wooden awards for 2022.
Push
Jan 5, 2022
#10908
Kirk HerbstreitKirk Herbstreit

College football players are on a path toward becoming unionized employees

I say, we make the players, employees. I say, we're going on a path. Now we form a union. I mean, that's where we're going with this thing... because players need to be treated that way. They need to benefit more than they are not just with name, image and likeness.

The landscape has shifted dramatically toward this reality with revenue sharing and court rulings since 2022, though formal unionization isn't universal yet.
Void
Jan 5, 2022
#10909
Kirk HerbstreitKirk Herbstreit

Cincinnati would have stayed ahead of Oklahoma State in the playoff rankings even if the Cowboys had won the Big 12

My hunch is Cincinnati would have gone ahead of them. I think that's my hunch... Because of where they were all year. I mean, think about it. They weren't coming from 28 working their way, all the way up... they were invited to the party before the season started.

Hypothetical scenario that cannot be verified.
Win
Jan 5, 2022
#10911
Kirk HerbstreitKirk Herbstreit

If I'm Georgia, I am jamming Jameson Williams at the line of scrimmage every single snap

I'm literally taking a guy no matter where number one [Jameson Williams] goes... I'm jamming his ass. It's a line of scrimmage, every single snap with a safety over top. And I'm making either Brian Robinson win the game... Jameson Williams destroyed them. The last game they played, he can't beat me. He cannot beat me.

Williams got injured early in the game, making the strategy moot, but Georgia's defense held Alabama to 18 points.
Win
Jan 5, 2022
#28556
Jimmy GrahamJimmy Graham

I realized in 2011 that I was simply bigger and faster than everyone in the NFL

I would say about week eight [of 2011], I'm just realizing just I was bigger and faster than basically everybody in the NFL. And so realizing it... I can go out here and embarrass people. And then that's kind of the mindset that I took on.

His stats from 2011 (99 catches, 1,310 yards, 11 TDs) strongly support his assessment of himself as an unstoppable force that season.
Win
Jan 5, 2022
#28557
Jimmy GrahamJimmy Graham

My contract battle with the Saints forced the team to pay versatile players like Alvin Kamara more money later on

I think guys in that place, you know, who are young, got paid. And they just figured it out. You know, I think [Alvin] Kamara, I think the receiver [Michael Thomas]... they just kind of give those guys the bag just because they realize, 'Hey, we don't want like a leader franchise guy to have to get out of here.' I think a lot was learned through the whole experience.

The Saints did indeed sign Kamara and Thomas to massive extensions without the same public acrimony that defined Graham's exit.
Win
PFT CommenterPFT Commenter

It's a law of the universe that long-haired quarterbacks don't win Super Bowls

It's not even really long hair curse. It's just a demonstrable fact that long hair quarterbacks have never won a Superbowl... It's a law of the universe.

Historically, Super Bowl-winning QBs have almost exclusively had short hair. Kenny Stabler and Patrick Mahomes (who has curly/longer hair but not 'flowing') are the closest exceptions.

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